24 Feb 2025 Council meeting Other

Public Works Yard Updates Project: Options for Next Steps

Motion

That Council direct Staff to proceed with Detailed Design and Costing and allocate $1,800,000 funded by $1,314,000 from the General Asset Management Reserve Fund, $162,000 from the Sewer Operating Reserve, and $324,000 from the Water Operating Reserve to undertake the work. (Option four in the report).

Minutes, page 10

Sources

Agenda itemCity agenda, whole meeting

Staff reportPage 1

Purpose

To provide Council with options to progress the Public Works Yard Updates project and seek direction to implement Council’s preferred option.

Staff report, page 1

Staff recommendation

That Council direct Staff to proceed with Detailed Design and Costing and allocate $1,800,000 funded by $1,314,000 from the General Asset Management Reserve Fund, $162,000 from the Sewer Operating Reserve, and $324,000 from the Water Operating Reserve to undertake the work. (Option 4 in the report).

Staff report, page 1

DocumentsStaff report about Economic Development

Erin Hemmens Yes

Councilor Armstrong. Then, Councilor Brown. Thank you, worship. I believe. In this project. I've believed in this project from the get go. The most compelling line in this report that is leading me to move this recommendation is the sentence whether the public works updates project proceeds in the short or the long term, the design work needs to be completed and is an investment which will hold its value. I think this is just a good, solid step forward.

Suggestion of potentially putting the public works yard elsewhere. I also heard this from folks. And it's really easy, I think, to grab onto something that, oh, that would be great. We could put housing there. I just want to outline in the report. It's not just the works yard that rests. On this land. It's also a beefy housing site. The Vancouver Island Emergency Response Academy. The Namo Fire Rescue station number two, so locations would need to be found for all four.

Sheryl Armstrong Yes

Armstrong. Yes, I'm also. Going to be voting in favor. I think this is a very needed project, and one which I've always been behind. I know that there has been issues in the community, and I think a lot of those issues were addressed. I think our staff did a really good change about it. Explaining the program. They were. Out in the community. They were out all over the place. And I just want to make note. Of one thing where san it's relatively similar in size, not much bigger. They're doing a build, same as ours, for 220,000,000. So I think 90 million is pretty good.

Tyler Brown No

Thanks. I won't be supporting it. It's not that I don't think. The project is needed. It's really long overdue. I still struggle with some of the scoping. It doesn't make sense. And I went back and reviewed everything, and there's a lot. So if anyone says there's not. Information. That's simply not true. But unfortunately, that information. Doesn't lead me to the same conclusions that this advances, and I think it's a lot of money to not. Have a secure way of funding the project. And ultimately, I think. You're spending.

Ian Thorpe Yes

Much. Your worship. Excuse me. Through you, if I may. I'm going to support the recommended option, although I will state. That. Initially, my preference was option one to just move right away. To holding a referendum. For voter. Sorry electorate approval for borrowing and get on with the long term borrowing. And that would be for the roughly 90 million costs. I'm not interested in the fleet. Only option. This is a project which we need to get done, and the sooner the better, in my book. However, listening to your report, Mr. Simmons, today I'm convinced that. For the. Cost of this detailed design step, which will be part of. The total. Cost package, which eases the paying somewhat. I think for me, what's key is it will give, as you point out, a greater certainty of costs. Which I think we heard from the electorate rather. Is important. They want more knowledge of what this project is going to cost, and that's what this will give us, and I think it will, therefore. Inspire. Greater voter confidence in. The need for this project to go ahead. So I'm prepared to support option four, getting the detailed design and costing done, I see that as a good step to move the project forward.

Ben Geselbracht No

Through you. If we're going to proceed with building. The public works yard. I absolutely agree that going with a more detailed design is the right way. To go. I think this is money that needs to be spent anyhow, whether you borrow first and then do it or do this and then borrow. And I think when we go out without the detailed design, We're asking a large sum of money from the public, but it's at the conceptual stage if we don't do it and it has the public works yard. The value of that land. Wouldn't cover near the cost of putting in a different location. But when I think about. An ideal spot to put housing in the community, and the actual value of that. And potentially moving the public works jar to other centrally located spot, say on east Wellington or other location where good access could happen. That in the grand scheme of how an IAm is going to develop and putting things in the right spot. There might be other options. And given that we are put in a spot where we have to take a bit of a breather on the project to fully investigate that, and so I'm going to be voting not in favor of this because I would like a bit more time to explore informally different options. Before progressing further, but I do think that this detailed design is the right way to go. If we're looking at the spot.

Hilary Eastmure No

Thank you. Thank you, councilor Eastmeer. Thank you. I really appreciate the comments of councilor Gesselbrak because I thought it's very close to along my lines of thinking as well. I do like the idea of the integrated project delivery approach, and I do think that it is really important to bring a very detailed plan to the public at this point. With a lower contingency. So we're more clear about the costs. But I think that perhaps. Our processes to this point have brought us to what is actually an opportunity to rethink. What our priorities are and this project in general. And really think if there's a way that we can do this. In a really new and creative way. Because. Yes. That property could be good for housing. I think if we're building pieces of public infrastructure. They need to be multi use now. And so I'm like, can we look at a project that has housing on top of an admin building. I just think it could be a really neat opportunity for us to. Take a new creative approach to this much needed project.

Janice Perrino Yes

Thank you. Thank you. Cou. Councilor himmonds. Council, Prino. Thank you, worship. I just wanted to say that the discussion at this point is. Around the detailed design and costing, and it's important that we've had that discussion. I'm a bit thrown as to how some of the debate has been around now the location. I'm not sure that that's part of the discussion. No matter what we do this building or buildings as the two and I agree with councilor Thorpel and that. Both buildings need to be done. Need to be done as soon as possible. This is long overdue. And as the city continues to grow, we need to have this building. Looked at. It's inevitable. So if this gets us any closer, all the better. Thank you.

Leonard Krog Yes

I go back to work. What? Councilor? Hemmens had to say this project. Has been something she supported from the start. It's been something that. Many councils previous to us have supported, and this is a dreadful analogy, but I couldn't. Think of a better one. If. You're a parent. And. You have the need for a house for your family. You're going to go to the banker, and if you're honest and upright and straightforward you're going to say. I don't know. I think, God, it could go as high as $90 million. And the banker says, oh, that's a lot of money in the banker in this case. We're the citizens of the Naimo confronted with an AAP process and. They said, we don't like all those contingencies. Because you're saying it's. $90 million, and we don't think you're getting your money's. Worth for it, and we're not very happy about it. And we're basically sending it back to you. So any smart banker, of course, says to someone who comes to borrow money. Well, what's it going to cost? And you said, oh, could be $90 million and. The banker says. Well, why don't you go back and get the plans for your house? And a contractor or two to give you a fixed price. It's going to take. 5000 hours of labor at $100 an hour, and it's going to take. 10,000 board feet and 50 yards of concrete, whatever the case may be, and you go. Back and you price those things so you can go back to the banker and say, well, I wanted to be upfront with you because I thought with the four kids and the two of us, et cetera, that it might be 90 million, but in fact, The contractor now says it's 45 million. And the banker says, okay, that works for me. And I guess to some extent, that's the way I see this. There is no question. This project is needed. And with respect to some members of council are saying, put it off, consider. Other possibilities, et cetera, et cetera. I'm sorry. I'd be with councilor Thorpe on this. Frankly, it's time to fisher cut. Bait. Let's get on with it and build the damn thing. Take it to referendum and. See what the people have to say. But if we're going to do that again, I say, from a political perspective, having been through this process. And suffered the political consequences. And I would argue, counsel, I'm being canted here. Lost. A fair bit of political capital on this, then it's better to go back with what? Is proposed in the motion moved by councilor Hemmens and recommended by staff that we come back with the plan. We can cost it if conc. Concrete is $300 a yard. I don't know what it's going for. A cubic meter, I suppose now. And that's what it's going to cost when this comes back to us. And we still need the same amount of concrete we'll be able to say at the time it goes out. For permanent tender. Well, we know that we're going to need this many yards or meters. Of meters of concrete and this is what it's going to cost. I just think it makes an awful lot of sense to come back again. I apologize to my dreadful analogy about building a house for your family. So candidly, this is, from my perspective, the way to get on with this. It needs to be done. It's in the public interest to do so, to pretend that there is some alternative. Or we can punt it down the road a little more to some other council. Or perhaps. After the next election and hope it'll all go away. Well, it ain't going. Away. It's time for this council. After decades. Of, frankly. An unwillingness to bite the bullet that we need to bite the bullet.

Questions and answers

Councillor Ben Geselbracht
No

asked

Thank you. Mayor, just a question. With proceeding with the detailed design. That would be the design. Maybe somebody already asked us, but for the whole project. Both buildings. Would it be? Half the cost. Is there any cost savings if we just did? The. Vehicle. Maintenance

Bill Sims

answeredGeneral Manager, Engineering and Public Works

bathe. Design on that through your worship to Councilor Gusselbrock. I think there'd be an incremental savings, but the level of effort to bring professionals in is still the level of effort. It wouldn't be half the cost. I'm speculating it might be a 25% savings. Okay. That kind of thing. Great. Thank you. Your other question that was in there, the intent would be to carry this forward for both the fleet maintenance and the current admin building. I just have a follow up question. Again, a certainty of cost. Greater certainty of cost. And a decision down the road by council. Whether both projects or both buildings, I should say. Proceed, one or the other. Proceeds and just a little bit more information to be able to share with the community as well. Great. Thank you. That was my question. Just the detail. More detailed design gets

A councillor answered

done with input from with the contractor. At that stage gate. Then we could decide whether to go with both buildings or even just with one. Membership. That's correct. Great.

Councillor Paul Manly
Yes

asked

Thank you, worship. Yeah. It's a mighty large price tag for design, so I'm curious about that. 1.8 million. For concept plants. Why the large price tag on it? Worship.

Bill Sims

answeredGeneral Manager, Engineering and Public Works

I think. This is involving the professional fees, and this is actually a little bit more than concept. It gets us along a detailed design path. It also hires. And incorporates the services of a general contractor, a civil contractor, to come to the table and be part of the project team. In other words, we build this project team. Start to develop. The detailed design and the costing. And then we come to the stage gate of now we need to build it. We have a number, and at that point, We come back to council and the public.

followed up

And that would include all of the underground workings, everything

A guest answered

else. The part of the project that's in Bowen park

followed up

as well, correct? Yes. Okay. Yeah. After. This recent earthquake. I really see the need to get this project done. And. The city is the fourth line in an emergency response. Police, fire, ambulance, and then the city workers and people that live downhill. From a broken sewer main are going to be wondering where the city is to help them out. Getting those pipes fixed. And if we have buildings that are crumbling on our equipment. And potentially a fire truck. In a cinder block construction building. That doesn't help. We need our workers to be able to respond to citizens and to be able to assist when people need that assistance. And I think this latest earthquake is a bit of a wake up call. For us. We need to be better prepared. And citizens will be unhappy with us if we are not prepared. And that's usually the way things work. So. I'll support this for now. I do have a little bit of sticker shock. With it and sticker shock overall with the project, but nothing seems to be cheap these days. Thank you. Thank you,

Councillor Sheryl Armstrong
Yes

asked

Well, could come sooner. I'm just saying I think we should be looking at options like that if. We could combine them. Then we've got another pool of money as well. Just a thought. And then my last question, if I may. Is. And it's sort of addressing here, but we hear a lot of comments that why aren't we contracting out to local businesses to do the upkeep on trucks, et cetera? Could you just comment on the feasibility,

Bill Sims

answeredGeneral Manager, Engineering and Public Works

Please? Well. Thanks, your worship. I think. It's a good point. And those. Opportunities do present themselves, however. We've got call it a stable of mechanics that provide. Able to provide round the clock service for. Our fleet, especially the heavy equipment fleet. And are able to be responsive to when issues come out. And a classic example is our garbage trucks, so those are very intensive. Equipment, mechanical equipment, subject to frequent breakdown. So midway through the day they can come in, roll up. And be serviced on a priority basis and get back out on the road. Where we use local businesses to supplement that work is when we have maybe a long term fix. Like an engine replacement as an example. So local businesses are part of our work plan as well. So it's a combination. Thank

Councillor Tyler Brown
No

asked

Spent. Thank you. And I have one more question, your worship. I know we've been presented a lot, so I'm going to just keep not my comments so much on the project as a whole, but I guess my next question is: Why this approach now?

Bill Sims

answeredGeneral Manager, Engineering and Public Works

And not previously. Your worship? It's a good question. And it goes back to that context piece earlier. So. The plan earlier was. To fund the entirety of the project from borrowing. So we elected, I suppose, not to proceed with detailed design until the borrowing was certain. So there's. A certain amount of investment in detailed design. This particular approach, 1.8 million will get us further along that spectrum and get us to a point. Of greater cost. Certainty there'd still be work to do. It's a relatively small investment to get us further along, but previously, again, We were considering. The entire project. Deep design and construction to