That Council direct Staff to prepare a report outlining options to charge the Province for all medical calls attended to by Nanaimo Fire and Rescue including costs to wear and tear on fire trucks and other equipment.
you. So one of my concerns is I just did random polls and I pulled the fire calls for, , um April. 8th and 22 out of 30 calls were for medical aid. . So 22 out of 30. That's more than 40%, which had been our past. Now we're surpassing 50. I also pulled the calls for today. 29 out of 43 were also for medical. So I'm concerned that first of all, we're not getting ambulances aren't getting the services that they need, because they do need more paramedics. And I believe that the provinces relying upon our fire departments, we went through a stage I believe in chief can can correct me about Three or four years ago where we did that service was pulled. . And we went back to it because our citizens were hurting and I understand that so my purposes. . To fold and that the fact that we are now once again taking a download from the province and also it's not helping our our issues with the ambulance to get. There's needed second point I heard Chief Speak about this chief Doyle speak about this on Wednesday where he said, Our mental health impacts have really gone up significantly. And so I'd like to know Partially when we do look at our medical calls, are they as a result of Medical issues such as heart attacks, injuries, or is it most of them related to overdose or whatever. So that would be important for me in the report to know if what we're looking at, because they're to me two different things, And I'm also concerned about the mental stress that it's it's putting on our fire department because we heard their claims are 240,000 each, so when you have a numerous, that's that's very expensive. . So Those are my rationales for it. I don't know if it will pass or not have been getting lots of support from around the province where people saying this needs to be done, So thank you. Thank you very much. .
counselor Armstrong was that there is concerns around around the province around. . Um The type of incidents in the cost associated with the type of incidents that fire services are rescuing, too. And I think that's evident in I left my notes at home on this way. Um, and unfortunately, , but, , um There's been a whole series of you BCM resolutions that have Passed on this and reviewing those indicates to me that There is concerns around some of that. Um, and at the same time the UBC and membership is on it. So that suggests to me that there 2019 we funded the EMR program. Two. Two. Fully trained the complement of the firefighters to respond to this for the need in our community, And I remember that discussion then. But ultimately, um, council at the time decided that That was a cost and something that we viewed as tape worth taking on for the citizens. And so for those two reasons, , one that I think it's we've gone down this path knowing knowing that it's something that we wanted to take on despite some of those concerns around downloading, and that this is a provincial item that has active, , um Work being done on it. I'm just wondering what we might achieve. . Voted this report that Might be better served by allowing some of those more recent motions through you BCM to play out and have those discussions with the province and I will also highlight that it was recommendation. . Around that EMR training from from, uh, both the administration Fire administration but also supported by the union at that time to have that more advanced training, so Yeah, I'm I'm struggling with whether I'll support this or not, but sort of leaning towards no at this point. . Thank you. .
Thank you. Worship do appreciate everybody expressing their views and asking the questions and chief toil for for answering them. . Um Further discussion has convinced me I will not be supporting this motion as much as I appreciate the sentiment because I don't think our curiosity warrants people doing work. Um It's I also don't think the province doesn't understand that there is a lot of costs being Born by municipalities, whether we're talking fire Um There's been three decades of this, and there's been my research at least two decades worth of motions through UBC. I'm asking for resolution just attended a conference this this weekend where there was countless financial asks on the province. . Um So it's just, you know, I could go on. It's just I think we're simply asking something out of our curiosity and our belief that it might add another drop into a bucket and result in some
that order. Thank you Worship. Um I'm certainly in sympathy with the intent of this motion by Councilor Armstrong. But I share the concerns and I think the sentiments expressed by Councilor Brown. . Um And as councilor, Armstrong acknowledged, this is an issue that affects communities all through the province. . So I question the value of having our staff spend time preparing a report for something that has already gone through you, , BCM. . And I don't see that our one community pushing this is going to be nearly as effective as the collective voice of a number of communities through the BCM process. So I would rather spend our efforts in renewing the UBC M initiative on this topic and and push that for action. I just I don't see this as an effective use of our time, and I think it's a bigger issue. . Then beyond that goes beyond our city. But I again I appreciate the intent. Thank you.
cranky old mayor from Williams Lake, I believe was well Cobb Lane about the catch and release program. Uh and I'm not saying that I agree with the simplicity that phrase in describing how our criminal justice system functions, But we had announcement made in the lawns of our local courthouse. That sort of followed on the Tail end of that kind of I won't call it a publicity stunt, but the drawing of attention to an issue that's important. We are frequently asked about the cost and why the ambulances there and why the fire truck is there, etcetera, etcetera. It's a fairly straight forward motion Direct staff report outlining options to charge the province for all medical calls. I'd like to have the information I think it would be useful. . And if nothing else, then it will draw attention to an issue because ultimately you can argue that it's part of the health care system. This is a downloading, so I'm going to support Councilor Armstrong's motion.
Thanks to your worship. I'm going to support this. And I think actually, counselor Brown just gave me another Additional reason to support it. And that said it has been continually you bcm without resolution. And so this is a conversation that municipalities continue to try to have. And so I think, if we if a more direct motion comes from this table that might reinforce those, , you BCM motions. . Um, I want to flag that I have a couple of curiosities that I'd like included in the report, Um and and counselor. Armstrong mentioned one that is like to know the type of a lot of data we collect on our medical calls. Do we deal in eight that we go to overdoses versus cardiac events, , and to that end, , I know that The health outcomes show that having fire respond to cardiac events is absolutely proven. We know that early CPR is exactly what we need in those cases. . I'm curious to understand the medical evidence for attending the other medical calls. And if that same evidence is there for the other medical calls, So that's just something I don't you don't need to respond to now. I just like addressed in the report when it comes Um and Secondly, I understand that we have an agreement a first responder agreement between the nano fire rescue and emergency health services, and I'd like that to be appended to the report. I'm seeing the chief shake his
Through oil through your worship to Councilor Hamann's Nanaimo actually doesn't have an agreement with the B C. E. H s. And to our knowledge we never have Um, So it's something that the province um Is interested. B C E. H S is interested in doing recently the PC fire chiefs as as advised all fire departments to hold off signing the agreements until they have an opportunity to have input on that agreement, And once they have input and are meaningful input on the agreement, then I suspect that agreement would come forward to us. . So we have to have a timeline on that. Through your worship. Councilor Hamann's I have inquired as late as today, and there's no timeline on it. . Although, , um I do understand that's being actively worked on
Great. Thank you. I wonder if I may rather than our own agreement appended to that report. Could we have samples from other communities who do have a government? I understand They differ, and it's the variation that I'm curious about. So if I could have two samples from other communities with different agreements, that would be great for my decision making.
Thank you, Councilor Pre No, thank you, your worship, and I also see the intent and I But it's it's such an important motion that it in fact should be much larger. Some of the comments that Councilor Hamann's made is so right on But this needs to be going to the U bcm. . This isn't enough that we Ah! Ask you to do a report. It's It's much bigger than that. And you have the documentation, but My concern is I don't want to. I don't want to have our chief doing this work when you're already so stretched for resources and time. . It because I'm not entirely certain that it will achieve any of the goals that we hope it will. Whereas I think that if you have the documentation I think we should be taking this to the UBC em again. . I know Councilor Brown was saying that and I think it needs to go there. I think it needs to go much higher than this. I'm not sure how Chief Doyle feels about that. But this is such a serious issue and what you're facing is so we brought it up. When the premier was here last week. . I I just am not sure that this motion will achieve what we're hoping. . And I just wonder if through you your worship if Chief Darryl could maybe comment on that. Oh, that's it. Sorry. Sorry. Could you save the world? Just save the world Chief Doyle. I'm sorry, I I just just if you can comment is as likely as you want. .
Three worshiped counselor free. No, It's a very complex issue as questions that discussions already illuminated, um to the to the issue at hand. The very basic issue. We certainly have a very active dashboard of collecting our stats. Every every stats collected and broken down into different types. . Overdoses falls. . Sorry into the way. Um So, yes, we have that data readily available. In fact, I could get it right now. For you. It's that it's that accessible, um, to the greater issue is that I tend to agree that this is a provincial issue that other departments have seeked. . Um this or have looked at this path and have had from what I've been advised, not much success. . So, um But I'm not. I'm would be happy to write a report for you on this issue and give you all the data and answer any questions you have.
We have it readily accept, Okay, readily available so just as a final comment, knowing that it's not a difficult report for you to write, I will be voting in favor, but I think we need to take it a step further. Once we get the information Then we have to put a resolution forward and we can do that because we can put you bcm. . Resolutions forward by. I think, June the 30th so we can do that, and I think we need to do it again and and you know what we get up and speak to it. It's we have nothing to lose and so much more to gain, So it's worth a try. Thank you.
Something. So Oy, I can't wait for that. Um, I am really interested in the data in the ride data. I think that doing a calculation of how much in Allison you use and everything else. . I think that's a waste of time. . Um, we, you know, just looking at the figures we could round it up and say it's costing us millions of dollars. Um, there are the so I've heard that that we don't have enough paramedics to help deal with this crisis that we're seeing on the street and not I would just like to get some comment. From cheap oil about What is the situation in terms of paramedic response and should we? You know what? What should we be doing as a council in terms of advocating on behalf of the fire department to get To get more paramedics here.
Certainly through your worship counselor. Manly so I think the The overarching question is the paramedics in recruitment. I think we've heard from the RCMP in terms of recruitment. We've heard numbers as far as um, I think it's a depot 10,000 down to 1800 in that range and I suspect with I don't have that as accurate data for PCs, But I do know that they have a recruitment campaign on But I suspect there that like all emergency services, um With fire being somewhere the section Exception that they're probably having a difficult, more difficult time filling roles as Fastly as they need the their resources as well. I think it speaks to the complexity of the whole public safety in terms of medical incidents from from patient contact through the system. Through the through the outcome, Health stressed. It is from the medical system all the way down to the Firefighters and paramedics on the front end. I mean, just to give you a little bit of history that we've been responding to medical incidents for over three decades now. . Um, so this isn't a new something that we've participated in as a local government. It's not something that the province compels us to do. We are actually an act. We've participated freely in that system. . And we've been doing it for over three decades. And we as evidence in the Cameron report, uh, that was authored in 2006. I believe it was. I can get that for you, but I believe it's in 2006. . Um, illustrates how important that all all of those all the all the department, Fire department, paramedics and everyone down the line plays in that. So this is I don't know that there's a magic bullet in terms of that if we just had could recruit We're never going to be able to recruit enough of all of those services to really Keep up with it. So far Department does play a critical role in that system. Um, we respond with the paramedics to support the system to really to administer critical interventions and are in the most needy patients, And that does reflect sometimes I've had questions. Why do we have paramedics and firefighters responding and the numbers we do? ? Because if you just spent a small, small observation team, then they can't administer critical interventions timely enough. . So, so we do play. We've played an important role for over three decades in the pre hospital care system. .
Well, I'm I'm I'm inclined to support this, if if there was an amendment on it, that the fire department is not calculating whole bunch of costs to do this. I'd like to get some raw data. I like to find out what other departments are doing. . And As as Councilor Hammond has outlined, but I think calculating Costs and trying to come up with an accurate cost of what this is. . Is is, um onerous.
I'll be brief. I was certainly hesitant on this, and I explained why I decided that I will support the motion. And I appreciate the comments and questions asked by Councilor Perino a few minutes ago on the assurance that this report will not be too onerous for the chief for his staff. . I think it would be very valuable to have some basic facts that we could, as councilor, Perino said. Used to move this forward again at the provincial level level through you bcm and so it's ammunition for us to take forward at that venue, so I will support it because of that. Thank you.
, Um Question for, um, for the chief regarding there's a collaboration happening already between BC Fire Chiefs and BC Ambulance Services Are they're working on some type of contractual agreement? ? So I'm just wondering, Are we jumping the gun a little bit with this motion, with more information potentially coming. .
Through your worship Counselor. East Mayor. There is a effort between B. C. H S and the B C fire chiefs to get to a collaboration agreement. I don't know that that would address them, Um Councilor Armstrong's concerned about funding. It's simply a framework that we participate in, , uh A codified framework that we would agree to participate in as opposed to right now, In some circumstances, A lot of circumstance are circumstance where we don't have an agreement with them. . So
hope. Yeah, one of the big issues and in regard to the M R program, ambulance or the Fire Department will still go to accidents because we also pay for the fire over the place, So it's really not taken out of our pocket. . My concern is we did receive letters and I don't know if some of the council members would not have been here from E. H s asking us not to send the fire to these calls because it was really hurting them in their negotiations is also in also for getting extra bodies. I don't know if people remember that. . That came forward, so that's a concern. I have We don't have to go to these calls. So what happens if we decide We're not going to go to these calls? ? Pardon? That's right. But I mean, but that's why we've done it right. But I mean, so, , like we are taking on additional responsibilities. . And it's costing this city a lot of money. And what happens if there's a major fire while our truck is sitting noted at a health call because they can't leave. . Is that correct? You can't leave once you're at the call or there's there's
Through your worship to Councilor Armstrong. Yes. Um, once we're we've made patient contact. We can't break patient contact. We are required to stay there, However, Um, it's also why we have some resiliency built into our system. Because just not for medical calls. Once we're helping someone out of rope, , call hazmat call a water rescue call. . Um, we were really, you know, we need to be there to we can't just leave. So it's kind of why there's resilience in the system with extra fire halls. And and then my point
is is council, Brown said. This has been at the UBC and for 20 years with nothing happening, , nothing. . And and I mean, and I'm just not content with it. It doesn't mean the chief made came back, and it may be say, do nothing. . There may be other there may be a is just to asking for a report is what are our options and it could be that nothing or we could determine that. . Has anybody ever build them? ? Yet we don't know that. So it's just actually just asking for a report and I'm going to sum it up because I see the mirror going like this. . Thank you. .
Your worship, your worship earlier in the agenda, there was committee minutes, but just for a receipt. I believe you said there weren't any. But they were just there for receipt. There's no motion required,