4 Dec 2023 Council meeting Economy

Nanaimo Operations Centre Alternative Approval Process

Motion
That Council move forward with a second Alternative Approval Process in relation to “Nanaimo Operations Centre Phase One Borrowing Bylaw 2023 No. 7362” and: 1. determine the total number of electors of the area to which the approval process applies (the whole of the City of Nanaimo) to be 78,892; 2. establish a deadline of 4:30 p.m. on Tuesday, 2024- FEB-20 for receiving elector responses for the Alternative Approval Process in relation to “Nanaimo Operations Centre Phase One Borrowing Bylaw 2023 No. 7362”; and, 3. approve the Elector Response Form as attached to the Staff report titled “Nanaimo Operations Centre Alternative Approval Process” dated 2023-DEC-04.
Minutes, page 11
Sources
Agenda itemCity agenda
Staff reportPage 1
Purpose
To provide Council with options to proceed with Nanaimo Operations Centre Phase One Borrowing Bylaw 2023 No. 7362.
Staff report, page 1
Staff recommendation
That Council move forward with a second Alternative Approval Process in relation to “Nanaimo Operations Centre Phase One Borrowing Bylaw 2023 No. 7362” and: 1. determine the total number of electors of the area to which the approval process applies (the whole of the City of Nanaimo) to be 78,892; 2. establish a deadline of 4:30 p.m. on Tuesday, 2024-FEB-20 for receiving elect or responses for the Alternative Approval Process in relation to “ Nanaimo Operations Centre Phase One Borrowing Bylaw 2023 No. 7362”; and, 3. approve the Elector Response Form as attached to the Staff report titled “Nanaimo Operations Centre Alternative Approval Process” dated 2023-DEC-04.
Staff report, page 1
DocumentsStaff report about Governance & Civic Engagement

Janice Perrino Yes

I want to say to Mr. Bartlett, I can tell you that no one at this table gets elected to be. To have to go through difficult. Questions and to go through difficult decisions. That's not the fun part. We want to do referendums for beautiful things to make nanaimo just that much more beautiful. And I can tell you that for me, this is the last project on the planet that I would like to personally support. But here's the problem. The Public Works Yard was built in the 60s, so it's already close to 70 years old. I mean, it is ridiculous. The population back then. Was only like less than 20,000 people. We're dealing with a large city now, these kinds of decisions that we're making today, for public works, everything that they do, we can't live without it's. Like Mr. Sim said. Any problems in the city? It's our public works. Anytime there's snow removal or water or whatever. It's the public workshop that gets called. So they need to be able to respond appropriately and seismic or not, they need to have a building where they can actually do the work that this city needs. So. Whether I like it or not. No, it's not to walk away. It's not the art Gallery. It's not the South End Community Center. But it's direly needed. And guess what next? It's going to be a police nation because it's direly needed. This is a growing city. And this is what we have to do to keep our city strong. We have options. Sure. Like a Soyus is now I think. And don't quote me because I could be slightly off but. They're facing an issue with an infrastructure issue where they might have to tax their residents. 40%. This is crazy. We can take out a 20 year loan and pay this off slowly. Yes. I'm glad it is in phases, because to be honest with you, if the first phase can hold them, maybe five years, maybe ten years, maybe. We can wait for the second phase. Who knows? But I can tell you one thing. If we'd done this project ten years ago, it would have been half the price. So every time we wait, every time we wait, excuse me. It's my turn. Every time we wait. The price. Escalates. It escalates. And that's what we're trying to stop. We have to get this done. Have we learned a lot. Absolutely. But the truth is this is one of those difficult decisions that no one at this table wants to make. But we have to make for the betterment of this community. It's not an option anymore. This is when it becomes past due.

Erin Hemmens Yes

Thank you worship. I think this project is well suited to the AAP process. Municipal governments often get accused of going outside of our knitting. The operations center is 110% our knitting. There's nothing else that we do that is more about the city and how we take care of people. On the city website, I asked Mr. Bartlett this kind of tongue in cheek, because there's a ton of information on here. The original public building were constructed in the 60s. Much of the additional space that's been added since that time have been using modular, temporary facilities to try to reduce costs over time. We use construction trailers, and these are not intended for permanent use. So we have this kind of hobbled together operations center that really is meant to be the core of what we do and how we serve our community. If this were the len crog center for the Performing Arts, I might be a little bit more skeptical, but this is literally where we service our fire trucks, where we service our dump trucks, where we take care of people when snowstorms hit. Yeah, I'll leave it there.

Ian Thorpe Yes

This. Although there is a specific motion on the floor which we need to speak to. We're dealing with three separate components of the question. And the first one is. Do we need. A new nanimal Operations Center, which I will refer to as a public works yard. And I think we've heard other counselors. State very clearly. And I'll back them up that yes, this is long overdue. This is a very tired inefficient, unsatisfactory and ineffective facility for what is a very. Basic need of our community to supply public works. That's what the city is all about. It's not sexy, but it's what we rely on to supply basic services. As counselors have said, water, sewer, fire support, and so on. It's a second emergency center for us. It's long overdue. It's badly unceded to replace it. So that's where I stand on that. Secondly, how do we fund it? Do we. Fund it through borrowing, long term borrowing, which we can pay back gradually over a period of 20 years or more. Or do we whack taxpayers with a huge tax increase for the next several years. When we're already looking at a tax increase, which a number of people won't find very satisfactory this year. Well, to me, borrowing is the answer. We have a lot of room for borrowing. We have a great credit rating. And by phasing the project. We can tackle it in relatively small bites and fund it that way. So that's my answer to that we borrow. So then assuming that. My reasoning has gotten me this far. We need a new public works yard. It's absolutely crucial. We should fund it by borrowing. Do we need a referendum? Which will cost over a quarter of a million dollars? Some will say yes, thank you. I hear you. Others will say no. This is as Councilor. Gezelbrock said a no brainer. And for $12,000, we can hold an AAP process, which is not something we're making up here. This is a provincially. Allowed process, which is commonly used in municipalities for projects like this, which are deemed to be essential and which we assume most citizens would support. Now I think Council has had full briefings on this project. I think. We're really up to speed on it. And I can dig out from my paper files at home the reports that we have received on it very fulsome. Could we have done a better job of communicating with the public? Probably we could as we always could. But we have tried and there have been open houses and there is a full set of information on our website. So I think. There is some responsibility for citizens, quite frankly, to educate themselves. So I know that won't go down well, but that's how I feel.

Paul Manly Yes

I can't say at this moment whether I support phase Two, three, or four of this project, because I don't know the details of those phases. I haven't looked at them in depth, but I have looked at phase One. I do understand phase One. I understand the rationale for it and the reason for it. And why we need to get it done sooner than later. On the website, it shows you what the numbers are. The actual construction of the building is $22 million. It's not $40 million. There is a contingency already built in for $11 million for cost. Escalations and contingencies in this whole project, this $48 million. It is borrowed up to $48 million. It doesn't mean that that's what we're going to borrow. There's $13.4 million in contingency built into it to deal with cost escalations. And I've seen misinformation about this or people that don't understand it because they haven't bothered to look at the website. And. We've tried to communicate. And clearly we need to do a better job of communication. And I would invite everybody in the public to come and visit the public works yard when we do an open house because I think we need to do another open house so people can actually see the working conditions. I like to see a fire truck backed into one of these bays and. A garbage truck backed into one of these bays so you can see how far they hang out and what kind of conditions people are working under to fix this critical infrastructure. We need firefighters. We need fire trucks. We need our garbage taken away. And part of a project like this. Is having service based that can deal with fire trucks that can lift a fire truck that can lift a garbage truck that can clean out a garbage truck and make sure that what is in that garbage truck does not end up in the storm sewers or the sewer systems because there's all kinds of garbage in it. So. It's a complex project. I don't know if some people have just referred to it as the Public Works Yard, as if this is a place where. You park a few vehicles and wash them off with a hose. That is not the case. It's a lot more complex than that. And part of the reason why. I have asked. Staff to come back to discuss this at another gpc is so that the public can tune in and see exactly what is involved with this building. That we're proposing? What is involved with this project? What's involved with the fire training. Tower fuel conversion that is actually a money maker. For the city because. We are cost effective for the city because we're training firefighters in the community rather than sending them out somewhere else. And we can't continue to burn pallets in there because of what the impact around the community and in the public works yard. There's a lot of things here to discuss. There's a lot to unpack, and I want the public to come out to that public. Engagement process and see this facility and see what needs to change.

Leonard Krog Yes

Firstly, it requires you to listen to the public, but you don't get to listen to the public until you get elected and you get elected by standing for. A platform by standing for things. And when you're in office. The smart thing to do is to listen to the staff who are hired. In a Democratic system, we are representatives of the people. They expect us to make decisions, to absorb information, to pay attention, to listen to expert advice, and then to make decisions. And were necessary not to defer, not to hide from the public criticism, and with great respect, not to be particularly moved. By and I say this with all respect to each and every one of you who feel passionately sitting in the Gallery tonight, not to be moved by the largest crowd that comes out on any given occasion. You are in provincial legislation for a very good reason, and it is provided most specifically and generally understood to be provided for those projects which are not the nice twos, but the need to this. Is a need to. This is a need to. I am not going to waiver from my position that this is necessary for the public. This is the appropriate decision with respect to councilor brown's comments, this is not a courtroom. I don't have to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty. That's not the standard by which we operate. In these Chambers. I have seen and heard enough over the last several years from staff who have worked hard to present the necessary information, who've described the working conditions. I appreciate the concerns. The atco trailers are grim. Maybe we should build the whole thing all at once, but we've been advised wisely to do it a chunk at a time, and certainly the chunk that the staff. At least in the atco trailers have a roof over their head when they're working on the very important equipment that helps deliver the very services that each and every one of us rely on. That's our job to deliver those services and to ensure that they're delivered. So I have no hesitation in voting in favor of the motion that is before us tonight. I rely also on the comments of councilors hemmons and thorpe, who spoke eloquently earlier. It is time to make a decision on this. It is not time to defer. It is not time to put this off. It is not time to think of some other boring date. It is the time to make the decision that is in the public interest which we were elected to serve and serving. That public interest does not necessarily mean you. Do it because you think it's popular, you do it because it's right. And what we are doing tonight by voting in favor of the alternative approval process is the best way to save money for the taxpayers, is the best way to get on with this project and is the best way to ensure that in the event of a real disaster, this city and its workers, who will work tirelessly.

Hilary Eastmure Yes

My question through you would have been whether there's more comfort if we were to borrow the full amount for the entire project instead of as a phased approach. Oh, the button before you cut off the questions. I wasn't slow on it, but I understand. Yeah. My question to Mr. Bartley was just whether. If you have concerns about the phased borrowing approach. Would you be potentially more comfortable with us borrowing the full amount for the entire project and. Going to a request for permission from constituents to concerns that we've heard from people is that there's discomfort with borrowing in a phased approach. When we can't tell you exactly how much the project is going to be by the end of the project. And I think when we're dealing with economic factors. It's almost impossible at this point to determine how much a project is going to be by the time we get to the end of it because as we can all see, I can't even determine what the price of broccoli is going to be. Week to week, like things are just going up. So much. If there's more comfort. With borrowing the full amount with a large contingency built in.

Questions and answers

Councillor Sheryl Armstrong
Speaker identificationConfident
Yes

asked
Lindsay. Councilor Armstrong, thank you. Having read the report. Have we made any considerations at looking at mailing the information out to each resident, such as we do when we're making changes? Has that been looked at? And if so, what would the cost be. Your worship. Sorry the report
Dale Lindsay
Speaker identificationConfident
answeredChief Administrative Officer
does and maybe. Ms. Gory might want to jump in, but the report does outline sort of the steps that were taken in the last AAP. Unless directed otherwise by Counsel, the intent would be to proceed with our normal process. Of notification. Thank you. I'll do some more thinking.
A guest answered
minute left. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you,
A guest answered
Counsel, for having me. My name is Andy bartlett. I'm a lecturer in nanaimo. I reside on Ashley Road. I've been a businessman in this community for over 40 years. I own and operate a law firm. And I'm happy to say that Nanaim has been my home for many, many years. I've raised a family here and I'm very enthusiastic about the city and about what you do here every day, even though it looks very boring. So I want to talk about referendums for a minute. I can see that the last referendum that was done in the city of Nanaima was in 2017. You may correct me if I'm wrong about that, but it appears to me that that was the date the last referendum was done. So. There must have been nothing in the last six years that piqued the interest of Council to do another referendum, I guess, but I understand that there were some aaps done. I looked at the aep process with an open mind, and it looks to me like it's a very difficult process. For the general public, it might be well understood by lawyers and other people that are familiar with legislation. But I can tell you, for someone who's a layperson, you would find it very difficult to understand the AAP process. There's an advertising period. Where. The process starts and. That's the means by which notice is served upon the general public. It's not effective. I never knew about it until my wife brought it to my attention. And like I say, I've been here for a long time. The thing that I want to bring to the council's attention is. That. Like Councilor Councilor manley's motion is bringing forward is it eaap process. Isn't an inclusive type process. If you don't subscribe to the newspaper that it's advertised in or read the website of the city in nanaimo, you don't simply don't know about it. So if you're trying to reach all the people in the Naimo. You need to do something different. Than the last time that you ran this AAP process. You need to deliver notices to each community, everybody in the community, you need to reach the people. Otherwise, you're going to continue to have people that distrust. This system. They don't trust this system. I'm just letting you know what the feeling is out there. I can tell you from my perspective. The cost. And I know there was a sum of $267,000 that's been put away for referendum voting. I did the calculations and there's approximately, according to the city 80,000 electors in nanaimo, if you break it down per elector, it's $3.33 per elector to hold. A referendum in nanaimo. Now, if you take the AAP cost. It's $10,000. I believe you. But there's another cost associated with that because each and every individual person that has to bring the documents back to the city has to spend time money for gas or money for stamps and envelopes. It's going to amount to three or four or $5. So the cost is. The same. There is no difference between the cost of an AAP and the cost of a referendum. You're just simply wrong about that. So lastly, I want to say one more thing. About. Borrowing money on behalf of people. I belong to. A collegiate system of people. That is built on trust. When you're borrowing my money for me, I want to know about it. You've got to ask me if you want to borrow my money. And I will tell you. Honestly, if it's for something that's 1 minute, Mr. Bartlett, 1 minute left. I'll tell you honestly if it's worthwhile in my view. I'll answer yes if it isn't in my view I'll answer no. I've got a quote from Mayor Krobe that he was giving an interview with Chile. And Mayor kroger, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the quote Mayor crow said. I can't say that I would support spending over $300,000 to get the answer to a question which I think for most people if they understood what was. Needed and what was happening would be voting yes anyway. That's taking away. My right to vote no. If you think that I'm going to vote Yes. Why do I ask me? Well, I'm telling you I know what's happening. I read the material and for this particular matter. At this particular time, I would vote no. I would look for a different way to resolve this problem. There must be some less expensive way. You don't need to bail the brand new, shiny building. If there's some seismic problems, there's some seismic upgrades that could be done, I'm sure. I would ask the Council to seriously look into that before they embark on spending this money on phase one and more money on phase two, three, and four, giving you more than five minutes. Thank you. Okay. So I got a little excited there, but I've been waiting all night to be able to say this, and it's almost 10:00. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mayor Council, for

Councillor Paul Manly
Speaker identificationConfident
Yes

asked
do a tour of the knock. Of the Operation Center. Or the. No. There was an invitation. There was a public invitation. Would you be interested in doing a tour
A guest answered
of the operator? I sure would if somebody could explain to me the costs associated with it. Yeah. I didn't know anything about a tour. I knew nothing about the project. Nothing. Absolutely zero. I didn't know about the aep process. I knew nothing. So that's how well your your system is working in your community. And and during a referendum, how do you vote? What are your opportunities to

Councillor Paul Manly
Speaker identificationConfident
Yes

asked
go out and vote. None. You haven't had a referendum in a referendum. You get three different times when you can go out to vote to a specific voting place. Yes, they have to drive to it. Can you mail in a ballot for a referendum? Not that I'm aware
A guest answered
of. No. Do you favor mail in violas. I don't favor mail in ballots. I favor being notified of a process that I have no notice of. Okay. Thanks. Thank

Councillor Erin Hemmens
Speaker identificationConfident
Yes

asked
You to Ms. Mercer. The faced borrowing. Are we looking at doing that? Well, a couple of reasons. So my understanding is that by borrowing in phases, we're going to have a greater understanding of the economic climate. So we can have a tighter budget for each phase. And Secondly, that if we bundle the whole package together. Our Debt Service limits. Would be close. To the top. Three worship
Laura Mercer
Speaker identificationConfident
answeredDirector, Finance
to councilor hemmons. So when we looked at that chart, when the borrowing got up to near our limit, that was with all of the projects, not just the nanamo Operation Center. The other thing to keep in mind is. When you have authorization to borrow that is only good for you have to do that project. And access your borrowing within five years. So if you cannot do the project within five years and access that borrowing, you have to go back out and. Access electoral Approval again. Thank
followed up
You. And then through you to Mr. Sims, is it reasonable to think that we could complete all four phases
Bill Sims
Speaker identificationConfident
answeredGeneral Manager, Engineering and Public Works
In five years. Your worship that would be exceedingly difficult to complete all of that in the first five years. And I just like to note. The reason for breaking the project into phases. We had originally anticipated building it in. A single fell swoop, but. As councilor Risemer noted. The uncertainty of cost escalation. When we were putting this together. Was too great for the community in our opinion at this point. So we bring what we can get a handle on. At $40 million of which. The new facility is about 22. And then there's a bunch of additional costs built into that. But. To try and project over a five or six year lifecycle of a project. What the projects cost, we're going to be three or four years from now was exceedingly challenging. And knowing the number of projects and the capital commitments that are on the horizon. Facing Council in the community. One big lump would have been overwhelming. We felt. And. We would have perhaps precluded doing any of the other projects. Thank you.
followed up
Last question. Can you provide me with the rationale for starting with phase one? Why that particular bundle of projects?
Bill Sims
Speaker identificationConfident
answeredGeneral Manager, Engineering and Public Works
You worship? A number of years ago, we did a seismic assessment of a number of city facilities and the fleet maintenance facility. The garage, which was built. In the 60s. Is basically ready to crumble if two mechanics sneeze now I'm exaggerating a little bit, but it's certainly not a seismic. Facility. Coupled with the working conditions that we're putting our mechanics through. Is pretty rough. We can't defeat vehicles, fire trucks, garbage trucks, and some of the larger pieces of equipment in the bays, so we can get the nose in, or we can get the tail in. But that's how we can get in. It's grossly inefficient and not fit for purpose, and that's one of my favorite. Phrases in any project that we do, it's fit for the purpose of the municipality. Fit for the purpose of the community. This particular fleet maintenance Facility is not. It's too small. It's too structurally unsound. And it's just not serving our needs anymore. Thank you. Thank you. Councilor

Councillor Sheryl Armstrong
Speaker identificationConfident
Yes

asked
Cetera, et cetera. Just a follow up, too. So I've heard from people they want to know why we can't do the seismic upgrades. Is it case that the building is just so bad that it's not economically feasible to do that. Because it's in risk of failure. Anyhow rishab.
Bill Sims
Speaker identificationConfident
answeredGeneral Manager, Engineering and Public Works
It's a good question. Certainly. We could do a seismic upgrade, but the building would still not be fit for purpose. It would still be an inefficient building. It would still too small. It would be still too few bays. And just wouldn't service serve. We could put some beams and maybe keep it from falling over, but. It's a

Councillor Paul Manly
Speaker identificationConfident
Yes

asked
And then councilor gusselbrook. I think your worship. My first question is for Ms. Gurry, and I'm just wondering about the requirements for referendums and for the municipal election during a referendum. I don't recall. Getting a mailed card to me for the referendum in 2017 and I don't recall getting a mail card to me during the municipal election. What are the requirements. For notification. Is a requirement for mailing information to voters. Hi, there. Hi, your
City staff answered
worship. And through you to councilor manley, my apologies for not being there in person tonight. And thank you, Mr. Lindsay, for introducing this. And taking the fault as you as well your worship as the corporate officer. I think it was my fault. But I really appreciate. You both saying so and want to apologize myself truly to the public, to everyone, for having to be here again. In front of you. So to answer your question, councilor manley, no, we do not send out mail cards for elections and or referendums or alternative approval process. There's no legislative requirement to do so. And the difference between why you would receive a voter card for provincial or Federal election is because you have. A specific location you have to go to for those provincial Federal votes, whereas. At Municipal election. And or referendum. You can go to any one of the voting locations, so we don't stand out the cards to specifically address what voting location you must go to because you can go to any one of them.
followed up
And the difference between an AAP. And referendum and the way people can vote. So, in an AAP, people have 30 days to bring the response form to City Hall or to mail it. In a referendum, they have to go to a polling place on one of three days or they can mail in a ballot. Is that correct.
City staff answered
It's a minimum 30 days with the previous nanimal Operations Center. It was 37 days. So it's a minimum 30 day requirement. And you can do any of those things
followed up
that you suggested. And so the provincial government when they say that potentially people could email in a response, but they would still have to require the city would still have to require the original signature, which means that you could email in a response, but you would still have to mail in your response form or drop it off at City Hall. Is that correct. So the suggestions in
City staff answered
the provincial guidelines that. Say that local governments may allow email. Response Forms does suggest that it be by formal policy and that the formal policy would include or could include such requirements as a follow up. In the physical copy to the corporate officer. Thank you. I have a
followed up
question for Mr. Sims. Would the city have. Another open house so people can come to the city works yard and see the infrastructure there. I've heard that the fire chief say that it's critical infrastructure. In the case of an emergency, if we have an earthquake. We're going to require city workers out to help. With broken gas lines. Broken water lines. Probably buildings that have crumbled. If we have a fire truck that's in the current. Service Bay and. It's a cinder block building. I understand. That falls in on that fire truck will have a fire truck out of service and workers that need to be rescued. I'm just wondering whether you be willing to do another tour for the public. I've seen these facilities. I understand. The Challenges here for staff. And actually inappropriate workplace. In some areas wouldn't pass basic work. Safe because of concerns overcrowded et cetera. Would you be willing to hold another open house so people can come and see exactly what needs to be done here. I would like to note
Bill Sims
Speaker identificationConfident
answeredGeneral Manager, Engineering and Public Works
That across North America, Public works is referred to as the Fourth Emergency responder. So as councilor manley's hint to that. There's public works crews are often on the front lines, either cleaning up after our firefighters or supporting RCMP. In traffic Accidents and so on. But we've considered of course. Better means of communication. For. Helping public understand the project a little bit better. And that's been. On our list. To open the public worksheet again. And provide those tours for those who are interested. Thank you. And then
followed up
I just have one question if it's okay to Ms. Mercer. If the AAP fails and then we go to a referendum and the referendum fails. This being critical infrastructure that we do need to build. If we put this off, how will we raise the money for doing this? Will this have to be through tax increases? Where. We increase like create a specific reserve for this and increase taxes and then build this thing ten years down the road. And also. What have we heard about the increase? The average increase annually. For infrastructure to build. Through your
Laura Mercer
Speaker identificationConfident
answeredDirector, Finance
worship. Yes. You would have to have some means of putting money into a reserve to save up to fund the project. If you, for example, like if you did this over ten years, $5 million a year, the first year. You would have and this is based on 1% of taxes now but. If you put $5 million into a reserve the first year, you would have about a 3.6% increase. And if you escalated that amount each year. After would just be the incremental increase so you wouldn't necessarily see another 3.6% increase unless you doubled it to 10 million. Or it's just say if the first year was 5 million, the next year was 5.5, you would just have that $500,000. Increase in the next year so you wouldn't necessarily see 3.6 every year, but you would definitely have a 3.6% increase in the first year you
followed up
Started putting money away. And we've heard that infrastructure cost of infrastructure escalate about 5% every year. So we would actually be doubling more than that. I think so we would actually be doubling the amount of taxation in order to create a reserve to pay for this rather than having it as board funds over a 20 year period.

Councillor Ben Geselbracht
Speaker identificationConfident
No

asked
Through you I'm wondering. If I think there's an upcoming gpc on this. I think having. The cost Drivers outlined. I think that was coming short order and potentially deferring this decision on the aep. Till after that. That information presented and then go and then we can go ahead and look of going forward with a bit more review. I'm just pointing that out there. So that's a possibility.
City staff answered
Sorry. Ivis. Maybe I can jump in and Miss Mercer or follow up the question around deferring the decision this evening to a future GPC, or further discussion with Council. So certainly that's something Council could do. We would just highlight and service Mercer will jump in the implications for that around the borrowing in 2024. And it has to do with the borrowing windows that we have because the money goes through the regional district, so to speak, to what the implications would be if we moved past January.
Laura Mercer
Speaker identificationConfident
answeredDirector, Finance
February. The city has two opportunities per year to do long term borrowing. A spring borrowing and a fall borrowing. And. The date to have because borrowing goes through the regional district, we have to have it to the regional district by a certain date in order to meet their deadlines and then meet the mfa deadlines. So the longer you delay. Starting a process. The tighter that timeline is for us to make a fall borrowing. And if we don't make the fall borrowing, we would have to wait until the spring of 2025 to borrow. Okay. Thank you.
followed up
I think just running the risk without having that information. We go ahead with Avaep. Say, for example, the AP fails. Just more delay. We still have a communication deficit in the community around this project. And. That could the same risk could be run for a referendum. And I think ultimately. What concerns me is just if those fail. We're still going to be stuck with the reality of the fact, which I'm quite sure of is that we need to replace this thing and we'll be in a situation. We're going to have to just really up taxes dramatically. And so I'm just curious if there is a possibility to fit in an information session, get the information on those cost drivers, and then make a decision on how to do an AAP in the most inclusive fashion possible and move forward. Thank you. Thank you. Councilor, eastmeer.

Councillor Hilary Eastmure
Speaker identificationConfident
Yes

asked
Thank you. Yeah. I think part of my concern also with this project is that when we toured the Public Works Yard, one of the biggest issues that was brought up with staff crowding, and the fact that a lot of staff are working in at Co trailers, essentially. And my concern is Phase One doesn't even actually address. The bulk of the staff crowding issue. So I do understand that we need maintenance base for vehicles. But my primary concern, honestly is for working conditions of staff. So my question is. Can we proceed with borrowing but still have a chance to rescob the project and maybe rework the phasing approach so that we're actually dealing with. The bulk of the staff. Crowding concerns before. We're figuring out whether the vehicles are going to be okay. Worship. I can
Bill Sims
Speaker identificationConfident
answeredGeneral Manager, Engineering and Public Works
Maybe say a couple of words. There. The timing of the report or laid out in the report is between January and February 20 for the extent of the AAP process. And we're scheduled to come back to Council, per the motion to do a deep dive on the project in January, the first GPC in January, I believe. So the process can start. I would suggest. And. The detail can come forward. And if councils and the communities absorbs that, then the process continues. Just a thought. As Mr. Lindsay highlighted, the risk of delaying essentially means we lose