24 Jul 2023 Council meeting Housing

Development Variance Permit No. DVP00448 - 300 Howard Ave

Motion

That Council issue Development Variance Permit No. DVP448 at 300 Howard Avenue to reduce the minimum parking requirement for a proposed neighbourhood pub as outlined in the “Proposed Variance” section of the Staff Report titled "Development Variance Permit No. DVP00448 – 300 Howard Avenue”, dated 2023-JUL-24.

Minutes, page 8

Sources

Agenda itemCity agenda

Staff reportPage 2

Purpose

To present for Council’s consideration, a development variance permit application to vary the minimum parking requirement for a proposed neighbourhood pub at 300 Howard Avenue.

Staff report, page 2

Staff recommendation

That Council issue Development Variance Permit No. DVP448 at 300 Howard Avenue to reduce the minimum parking requirement for a proposed neighbourhood pub as outlined in the “Proposed Variance” section of the Staff Report dated 2023-JUL-24.

Staff report, page 2

DocumentsStaff report about Economic Development, Land Use & Urban Form, Transportation & Mobility

Sheryl Armstrong No

Yeah. I'll be opposed, obviously. That's just too much of a variance for me. I've been by the Lanceville pub, the Black Bear, Longwood, all them least 20 to 30 cars minimum, all throughout the different times of the day. There is no alternative parking any place in the neighborhood. We already get complaints from that neighborhood about issues with parking. So for me it's just far too many variances. We just heard from our previous delegations that the Queens is upset at the loss of parking because it's going to affect their business. We hear that from many businesses. So for me, I can't support this great of a reduction. Thank you.

Tyler Brown Yes

Thank you, Worship. Whenever somebody goes on a holiday to England or Europe, they always come back and say, oh, so wonderful, all the little neighborhood pubs and restaurants, why isn't it not like that here? So I'm going to support this because I think this is the type of thing that people in North America travel to, to experience in other countries and cherish. And I think there's a vision here that would serve new development is going in, but also a lot of the old development in that neighborhood in a really neat way.

Ian Thorpe No

Thank you, Your Worship. And I honestly wish that I could support this because I think the concept is great and I love the idea of it. But as Councillor Armstrong pointed out, I share her view that this parking variance, if we want to call it that, is simply too great and we're not a little European village. And the reality is that most people or a lot of people are going to be driving and we continually create parking and driving problems in our city by issuing variances like this.

Leonard Krog Yes

I'm going to weigh in this tonight because I appreciate the concerns that have been expressed by the neighbors respecting people smoking, and it's a disgusting habit and I agree with you entirely and never indulged. Having said that, and I'm not just reliant on the recommendations of staff or the presentations that have been made tonight, but as Councillor Brown has pointed out, and as the city policy indicates, we are trying to create neighborhoods. Where people can literally walk within reason to get to where they need to go, reduce their carbon footprint, get some exercise, get to know their neighbors. And as much as I'm well aware of and very conscious of the effects of alcohol, this is not just a pub. This is a place where people can get a meal and gather and exchange news. It's in the middle of what has become a much more concentrated area of population. Councillor Armstrong and Councillor Thorpe quite legitimately have pointed out the parking issues. And I can say this in all candor, there will be parking issues if the good folks of Departure Bay or Uplands Drive or, you know, Flagstone Way or whatever in the south End want to drive here because it's such a popular place that will, to some extent, correct itself. Because people will say there's no sense going to this place no matter how wonderful it is, because I can never get parking. But the locals will be able to walk there. And candidly, the concept that we want to encourage parking in establishments that serve alcohol, I would argue from a philosophical perspective, is not a good one. I look back to the wonders of the Crowengate pub. That was the first neighborhood pub licensed by the province of British Columbia nearly 50 years ago by the Dave Barrett government. And everybody thought it was wonderful, but it was built and designed and placed on the concept of having access to an automobile. There's not a house within 300 yards of that place as far as I know, maybe even four or 500 yards. It was built well, I see Rich the CAO believes he might be closer, but it was built with the concept that you got there in a car. This is what a modern establishment in a modern city looks like, and I appreciate it. It's challenging for the neighborhood that's changing and people with single family dwellings in the neighborhood are going to not appreciate some of the crowding that will take place or all the strange faces. But this is the way that cities develop and grow. And I'd rather have you walking downstairs or a couple hundred yards to have a drink and a meal than I would you driving, as I say, like the Krog's from Departure Bay, even though the food may be wonderful. And I'm not saying I won't patronize it, but the concept behind this kind of establishment is to lure the people in the neighborhood and create a center in the neighborhood. I think there was the phrase used, the neighborhood suffers. You can argue that the neighborhood suffers in terms of what will no doubt be some parking issues. But I would argue that the neighborhood benefits by virtue of being able to enjoy a meal and a beer, as someone said earlier in their neighborhood, without having to drive to get there. So I'm going to support this if I haven't inspired anybody else and I hope I haven't because we don't want to be here all night.

Questions and answers

Councillor Sheryl Armstrong
No

asked

Councilor Armstrong, I got a question for staff. I just want to confirm that there are supposed to be 32 parking spots by policy and they're asking for 14, is that correct?

City staff answered

Through your worship. So the current calculation is one stall per three seats at this point, our understanding. So there are 13 parking spaces available which would under the current bylaw would service 39 seats. And you're correct. If what they're proposing is approximately, and we're not sure of the final number yet, approximately 96 seats, which would require under the bylaw, 32 stalls. We won't know until the permit application comes in, the liquor license application as well for the pub, how many seats exactly will be there, but they anticipate approximately 96 seats, which would

Councillor Janice Perrino
Yes

asked

Okay. And then if I could ask you a second question of staff. You know the problems that we have with people regarding parking, is this a reasonable request given staff experience? You see this every day, all day. We don't, we see it when it comes to the table. And I'm just wondering Mr. Holmes, if you could tell us what your opinion is as far as or mr. Lindsay, is this too large a variance or are we overthinking it?

City staff answered

Your bishop I think what I would say on this is like in many of these issues councillor has long term policy objectives of walkable bikeable communities of mixed use and this is a community that's under certainly a lot of transition. So you've seen new buildings here, there's a new building on the other side of the road, there's more buildings that are in for permits, more people living in this corridor. The idea is that over time as we have higher density that there'll also be services for those people. So yes, I can understand the concerns and the challenges in the interim with parking, but I think if we're ultimately to get to our goals of a community, of being a more walkable diverse community, mixed use, that it's applications like this that will help us get there. So staff would strongly support this

followed up

application. Well just to say then finally, thank you, I appreciate that I'm going to be voting in favor of this motion because I think it's an important addition to the neighborhood and